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Discussion Starter #1
Following on from the excellent spinnerbait thread I have some freshwater googan questions for targetting the above with lures.

#Is there a season for Perch, Chub and Grayling?
#Is fishing lures in coloured water a waste of time?
#What are ideal conditions to look for, Will Perch be hiding around submerged branches, reeds stucture or will they be out on patrol, fast/slow - shallow/deep water?
#Will you get nicked should you be caught reeling in a salmon/trout even if you were targeting perch? C&R anyway
#Is there any kit outside my bass gear that you can think of other than specific lures that I would need for freshwater fishing?

When this rain eases up and the levels drop somewhat I will take some shots of my local river and if its ok see what you all think with regards locations. Thanks in advance
 

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Andy, I have no idea really, but here's my thoughts....
I think there is a closed season, just as the trout season starts, around March time??
You fish for bass in coloured water, perch are predators too, guess the colour will be ok
I reckon structure is the place...apart from Grayling who apparently like the fast rifles
you'll need some form of rod license most defo. maybe a local area license if your on an angling assoc owned stretch?
Lighter the better maybe as I'd hate to lose a nice tide minnow 145 to a submerged shopping trolly!

Do you know if there are any coarse fish in the River Tawe, does anyone? I used to flyfish for trout back in the day and never hooked anything else :?:
 

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MosseyDog,
The coarse fishing season runs from 16th june to the following 14th of March, although some rivers and lakes will have their own seasons, worth a check.
You can get a rod licence on line, just bung "rod licence" into a search and you will find a link to the enviromenent agency, who will happily take your money (£ 20) for a full season ticket.
Most rivers and lakes however are private, and you need to find out who controls the fishing, having a rod licence doesn't give you automatic access anywhere.
Chub and Perch can be fished for right the way through the season, Grayling fishing generally seems to end about New Year in the areas I fish for them (hampshire chalk streams). Might only be a local rule though, again worth checking.
Caught loads of pike over the years in coloured water, clear water is better, but the fish still have to feed. Bright/boldly coloured lures with rattles generally will give you a chance in the mud.

As to grief, if you catch a salmon/Trout, Well if your spinning for perch where there are some trout, you will probably end up catching some. I just return them. Salmon wise, if you get caught fishing upstream "flying c's", you might be in for some grief, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. In some salmon rivers it can be very easy to catch kelts, post spawning salmon, while spinning for Pike/Perch. Just handle them gentlely and return them.
 

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Andy

I think Tunny's given you some good info there, if I can add a bit. I also fish for Perch & Chub with bait, mainly lobworms. The larger Perch in particular tend to hide as much as possible and in all cases love cover, overhanging trees, fallen trees and bushes, reed beds, under-cut banks, anything that can provide a secure place, however where present these are often the same likely places a Pike will hide. If you're fishing rivers then I tend to find the Perch will be out of the main water flow and nip out into the current to take a meal when they can. They'll also hunt down a meal by scent so they will travel from their lair to grab a juicy morsel but it's usually a pack of small fish that get there 1st. Chub are pretty much the same, and a very wary like bigger Perch. With lures I believe (rightly or wrongly) you have to be pretty close to draw either fish out, they don't seem to travel far to slam into a lure, a Pike will though. I personally think it's very hard to catch Perch or Chub in coloured water on a lure, they are more tuned into scent rather than sight or movement. Hard pushing rainwater causing rivers to swell can bring out the Pike on the hunt where as I thing Perch and Chub tend to shelter a bit and wait for something to pass. Smaller fish like Bleak don't seem to mind heavily coloured water and as such you would have thought with bleak being a staple diet of Perch, they would hunt more but I've found the opposite.

I also think it's easier to Predator fish with lures during Autumn, Winter and Early spring, the weed beds have died down and the baitfish have less cover but also there's far less snags and potential risk of fouling your lure so you can explore further and into areas otherwise difficult to reach. Also, never overlook a weir, down stream of the flow is an excellent place for Perch & Pike especially.

As for time of day, the hour before dark is THE most important time to fish for Perch with lures as they DO come out to hunt. Their eyesight being very, very good in low light. They also love a splash of red somewhere, even if it's a bit of red wool attached to a mepps spinner, works a treat with Perch.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you very much guys, will keep you posted as to my exploits, and Tunny I think I will have too try my little jigwobblers too as I have them in all sizes now :D
 

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Andy. I have found that Perch in particular like to chase down a lure, so often they only take the rear treble. Maybe worth removing the lower treble and giving yourself a bit more 'breathing' space when working the lures near the bottom or weedy areas.

Sorry, just as P.S I also feeder fish for Perch with red maggot with a short hook length. I can catch more fish and larger fish on the bottom rather than trotting a float down the river where the depth is constantly changing. I'm planning a try some small softies soon in some deep holes where I know Perch sit.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Blockhead said:
Andy. I have found that Perch in particular like to chase down a lure, so often they only take the rear treble. Maybe worth removing the lower treble and giving yourself a bit more 'breathing' space when working the lures near the bottom or weedy areas.

Sorry, just as P.S I also feeder fish for Perch with red maggot with a short hook length. I can catch more fish and larger fish on the bottom rather than trotting a float down the river where the depth is constantly changing. I'm planning a try some small softies soon in some deep holes where I know Perch sit.
Thanks again Andy, makes me think even more that the jigwobbler might be worth a bash as it only has a rear treble, I have them in 8g, 18g and the big nasty 28g. Spoke to a local today who catches chub locally, his prefered method is bread or sweetcorn behind a float. Will continue to gather more local knowledge and we should be away in no time :D
 

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Andy,
I wouldn't bother risking your expensive bass lures for perch and pike. For pike some of my most effective lure in the past have been Shaespeare Big S plugs, not sure if they are even still available but definitely expendable if necessary. Bigger soft plastics work and spinnerbaits as previously mentioned. I have caught pike on lures when floods have started fining down a bit and the water is not quite so coloured but still pretty dirty. I used to fish the Arun and that was notorious for flooding but we would still catch pike as soon as we could get back on it.

As far as perch go, there is a lake near me that contains perch to over 4lb. Currently there is a total fishing ban due to carp disease and lure fishing is banned anyway (but I am working on that). The biggest perch in there are caught right under your rod tip tight against the reeds with worm baits. I intend to jig some soft plastics in the same places to see if that works at some point.

You will need to check your local rules as far as close season is concerned. A lot of stillwaters remain open now all year round as do some canals. I don't know what the exact rules are for canals but it may be something to do with being attached to rivers or if the water flows like a river.

Mike
 

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All rivers, without exception, plus the Norfolk broads are closed for coarse fishing from the 15th of March until 16th of July. However, you have the odd situation that you can fish most rivers for game fish and eels during this period, and that includes using lures even if the fishery allows them.

The bulk of the manmade canal system plus still waters are open for fishing year round, but as already pointed out the proprietor of the water body or the fishing rights can have rules of their own so it always worth checking in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Vidar & Mike , Like the new name.
I'm going to pop down the road to Builth Wells later, theres a small fishing shop there so will be looking for the local rules, permits etc and will then have a short walk up the Wye. Moss will enjoy the walk anyway, mmm wet dog in the car, lovely
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well had a lovely walk today enjoyed by myself and Moss the Dog, we got soaked but after about a mile the Sun showed its face at took the chill off. Here is a couple of pics i took once the rain had stopped. It is the main river nearest to where I live, the Wye. Obviously the river is in flood but I will take the same photos when it drops to see the comparison.




I went to the local fishing shop but it was closed again, yet to find it open, however there was a link to this website in the shop window which has loads of information regarding species, beats ect.
http://www.wyeuskfoundation.org/fishing ... dwhere.php

The first picture was taken at one of their beats called "The Rocks" Pike present apparently, hopefully I can get down and find the shop Rods'N'Reels open at some point and have a good natter with the owner. It is amazing what is right on your own doorstep.
 

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Andy, looks like a stunning section of river. Would love to see hwat it is like once this excess water passes through the system. Defo a good laternative if time and weather prevent bassing at the coast!
 

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Andy mate on the wye some of the best spots i have found are where tributaries enter the main channel. in the town at builth where the irfon runs in can be amazing as the river fines down the fish will hold in tighter shoals. the other spot at glasbury is where the llynfi adjoins the wye. you will usually find a deep hole with a pronounced gutter/ledge and also alot of debris as in spate conditions branches/logs/trees etc get caught in the backwater and remain in situ when water levels return to normal. for river predators deep into shallow water, structure (man made such as stantions) and natural obstacles (trees/rocks/boulders etc just inside the main current are majir hotspots aswell as providing cover for baitfish they also deflect flow/current allowing the predator to expend less energy before bolting into an unlucky prey fish/lure. if you go to either of theese spots you will see immidiately what im on about!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Cheers Tim & Iestyn, funny you should mention the point at which the Irfon joins the Wye as this was the first spot I thought of especially after reading the arctic char article in the Chasing Silver magazine where they were targetting these types of Marks.
The rain was just stopping and clouds starting to clear so didnt put the photo up as its pretty bad but was really interesting watching the currents meet, takes me back to all my river kayaking days. I remember trying to canoe up the river whilst I was waiting for my mates to launch the once when the river was up, made about 30 yards in several minutes, good exercise. The Irfon will always be special as 13 miles upstream from here is where I used to fish in my early teens, days and days spent catching Grayling and my lifetime fish so far with my 5 1/2lb Brownie 25years ago now.
 

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The way this thread is going I should have called it "Mossey's Googan Diary into freshwater Fishing" :D

Managed to speak to the local Fishing Shop owner/guide in Builth Wells today, very nice bloke full of advice. The two marks in the first too photos are Private Fishing so cost more to target, the other mark as mentioned by Iestyn is part of the Groe Park and Irfon Angling Clubs water. I have spoke to the club Hon.Sec tonight and he has given me advice on how to join as a country member as I am about 2 miles out of their 5 mile radius for normal members. Unfortunately the only spinning allowed is for Pike but I can target the Chub with bait, he caught a 5lb chub there last week. He has also put my name on the waiting list for a trout membership so hopefully next year I can develope some fluff chucking skills which I can then use in the saltwater environment.

I feel such a complete and utter bumbling novice (because I am) Yet have some stupid confidence that I am going to catch fish. Catch or not, I just think that any type of fishing is just so cool, cant wait to get back on the coast but while I'm stuck here the rivers will be calling.

If I do fluke a chub at some point can I post a photo even if its not on a lure, as its all part of the process :?
 

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Re fishing lures in coloured water..

So long as the river isn't over it's banks lure will work just fine. Choose lures that cause high resistance on the retrieve that either displace a lot of water or have blades that cause vibrations. Preferably something that you can retrieve slowly and still get the vibrations. Spinnerbaits are great for this especially those with a colorado blade or two that will still vibrate at low speed with a deeper more bass thump, if that makes sense.. Willow blades cause a higher frequency sound possibly suggesting a smaller meal.. Just my thoughts.. Willow blades will tend to allow you to fish deeper though so depends on what depth you're fishing I guess! The fish need more time to key onto a lure in these conditions hence the slower retrieve. You can get away with a cruder lure as well as they aren't hunting by sight.

Some of my best pike sessions on the thames have been in periods of coloured water where I was getting a hit or a fish on most casts.
 

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#Is there any kit outside my bass gear that you can think of other than specific lures that I would need for freshwater fishing?
Yes you would need much smaller lures. Most of lure fishing in this country derives from pike fishing and lure anglers tend to use too big lures when targetig fish like perch and chub. I use 2'' shads for perch fishing in the Grand Union Canal and similar size or even smaller crankbaits for chub.
 

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Yes you would need much smaller lures. Most of lure fishing in this country derives from pike fishing and lure anglers tend to use too big lures when targetig fish like perch and chub. I use 2'' shads for perch fishing in the Grand Union Canal and similar size or even smaller crankbaits for chub.
Artur
Do you ever catch anything in the Grand Union. I've been for the ast two weekends around Watford and caught nothing.
 

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Personally I hate this place but as it is close from me I give it a go few times a year - usually during close season. There is plenty of chub in area around Watford in the canal and river Gade. A friend of mine who lives in Watford is fishing for chub only and he is catching even up to 30 chub a session. I can't remember if I ever blanked fishing the canal, but sometimes it is only one fish, usually good perch.
This time of a year is not really good but it should improve soon.
 
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