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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had a go with one of these lures ?

If so... I would appreciate your feedback on how well they perform and what was the best method to use with it.

I would like to try them on fast flowing deep water marks ,the weight and shape of the lure might be right for the job.
 

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I got one myself a few days ago and this is all I can find on methods:

on ***** site: I have used this lure to quite good effect using a simple "draw and wind back" method, like feathering for mackerel really

and henrys : It sinks to the bottom quickly, and you then need to “sink and draw” it as it swings round in the current. Reel and lift the rod tip at the same time and then let it flutter back down. Repeat and repeat

Not much on method on the other link Simon - does anyone know anymore on how to use?
 

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They're pretty simple things really. Like **** says, it's just like feathering for mackerel, just being slightly more intelligent about it. These lures don't 'swim' (generally) so always expect fish to take them on the drop. That's what they're for. They flutter as they sink (apparently. The slimmer they get the faster they will sink), and this is when they'll get hit.

Cast.... let it sink as deep as you want - I'd be tempted to let it hit bottom. Retrieve the lure with a series of quick lifts followed by slow pauses as you follow the lure down with your rod tip, winding in any slack line as it sinks. When your rod is back down to horizontal, LIFT! There's no point faffing about with a slow lift because during the time that the lure spends going upwards it's not really doing much if its a straight jig. When your rod reaches the vertical position, allow the lure to drop/sink again as you follow it down with both your rod tip and reel. Maintain a controlled slack line on the way down and you should feel any bites in the form of a 'bump' as it sinks. You'll likely need to strike at that point.
 
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I've had a few people contact me to say that their Press Bait Kamuy lures don't work properly - and then they have gone on to tell me that they have been "spinning" them back.

These lures are designed to work as the guys above have said - I tend to use them in certain, very specific situations.

Just ask anglers like Keith and Kevin about getting nailed on the drop. Awesome. I am at day one here, but loving all this learning stuff like I never did at school.
 

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I've had a few people contact me to say that their Press Bait Kamuy lures don't work properly - and then they have gone on to tell me that they have been "spinning" them back.

These lures are designed to work as the guys above have said - I tend to use them in certain, very specific situations.

Just ask anglers like Keith and Kevin about getting nailed on the drop. Awesome. I am at day one here, but loving all this learning stuff like I never did at school.
They really DO work great.
But, before everyone rushes out to get one.....

Most are too heavy imo unless in very fast or very deep water, or both.
I think Henry, Kev and I actually discussed pressbaits when he was over...

I think, well, actually know that metal lures are awesome but largely misunderstood.
In the US they are part of the lure angling culture. It's weird over there because you largely get categorised.

Some are Jig men, others metal men, others darter men etc, etc...
Yes, it gets that specific. Much like some guys on here are topwater men.

Nothing wrong with that except that topwater is seasonal and jig, metal, etc isn't.
So these guys get to specialise and get damn good at it too.

We've seen metal men carry everything from straight 5g bar lures to 8oz crippled herring. All have a place.e
Most guys spin em, even over there and...., seasonally, they bag up. Albies, Stripers, Bonito, Redfish......the list goes on.

But....

The guys fishing metals OTD bag up annually. Been there and seen it, got the Tee-shirt.
Overall, OTD, be it metal, soft or hard plastic, wood or jig and pig....catches the bigger fish and catches more fish.

Why ?

I don't have definitive answers but, it just works. Across the predator species list in both salt and freshwater.
Sure, retrieving works, no question. it can and does equate to lots of fish at times but, generally, worldwide, in warmer more active conditions.
OTD seems season free in my experience to date.

I'll do a proper flutter lures article asap. These lures demand greater understanding.
 

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Most are too heavy imo unless in very fast or very deep water, or both.
I think Henry, Kev and I actually discussed pressbaits when he was over...
My thoughts as well mate. I was going to mention it on my post earlier in the thread but it was about 2am and I was grumpy so didn't want to over-do the nagativity.

I suppose a lot of it is down to balancing tackle. If these came about from people using <= 40g rods then the casting weights are partially necessary to be castable on the 'standard' rods, but if you step your rod and line down like we have been lately, smaller jigs come in to their own. Even a 5g small metal jig sinks at a very quick rate. As 30g+ one is just like a rock. Maybe I picture it innacurately and have the theory wrong, but I'd want a bait that falls much more slowly, yet still has the apparent 'flutter'. If I had to pick between the Duo range I'd also prefer the new wider Fusion to any of the slims, just because it's likely to flutter more widely on the drop so this might slow it a little. Saying that, I'd still prefer them if they were sub 20g! I've caught stupid numbers of fish this year on 9g and 6g jigs, although not bass admittedly. I suppose that's where I may be wrong.... maybe the bass do need a slightly larger bait in this case, so the weight becomes an unavoidable necessity?! (bear with me, I'm thinking here...) To be honest, I'd pick the Jackson jigs over almost any of the Duo's if you sat the 2 in front of me - just because the Jackson is less dense. The 90mm version if possible. Weighting only 15g it's much more reasonable for a long cast and a slower fall.

Solid metal is cheaper to manufacture I guess, but I still can't see a reason why they wouldn't be made of hybrid materials that are less dense. The idea is to catch on the drop (mostly) so I still don't quite understand why the baits here aren't made for it? What we need is a decent casting weight but slower fall. Am I wrong?! .... I suppose in super deep water a certain degree of wight may be necessary, but from the shore, even on deeper headlands I'm rarely casting in to more than 30m of water, and smaller weights do the job everywhere I go? Narrow-minded perhaps just thinking about the water I fish?

Ok, here's one...

Because the lure falls fast and on it's side, we picture it as a 'falling' bait fish, but...

a) Do the fish see it as that, or...

b) Does the speed and fluttering just give the impression of a fish swimming downwards (not a dying/injured one like we imagine)?

Perhaps the speed of falling on a heavy bait actually increases the chance of a reaction take, rather than a slower falling 'sniff'?

Lots of thoughts. Head too busy.
 

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Kind of a massive statement there Keith,
I totally agree that OTD (done correctly is a deadly technique), and it can be used for many species (if you can set the conditions up for it).
Will be VERY interested in what you write with regards Flutterbaits.
 

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Ben:

You are right. Loads to think about and this is why I think we should 'pool' info from freshwater and sea. It's all relevant.

Dave:

Seems 'massive' doesn't it. But, I just can't help but reflect upon years of catching fish on a falling bait.
Float fishing in rivers, nymphing for trout, SP's in various scenario's both salt and fresh.
Even feeder fishing in rivers and lakes with a longer tippet often drew the best fish immediately. Feeder is down but the bait is still falling.

Like I said, I know not the answers just that results have a definite leaning toward bigger fish hitting OTD or with the flow lures.
Either way is a more natural presentation than cranking. I love plugging, believe me, I do, we have made a fine art of night plugging but, I cannot escape the fact that OTD lures have upped the average Bass size and numbers by some considerable margin whilst at the same time, we haven't really focused upon them as a species YET.

Even in places like the US jigs and flutters often take the prime fish in both comps and recreationally. The first flutters were probably around a very long time ago but the first real reference I have is from Scandanavia in the early 1960's. It was some form of modified diamond jig. Toby lures flutter great as do many pike and salmon spoons. They all mostly work across and down but.....

I think this is one area where text and localised writing lies in error.
I have some great works by H Falkus where spoons are referenced and I've read tons of stuff out of Scotland and Norway.
They tend to regard spinners as exactly that, 'spinners', in rivers fished, you guessed it, 'across and down'.

In actual fact, most accomplished river lure men fish spoons back 'with the flow' under the bank and maintain a 'just faster than current retrieve' and then STOP.
or OTD.
I've had loads of river Pike and Chub etc like this but only in the last 5 years did we switch to upcurrent spinning for Seatrout ?
Why ?

Because we followed the rules.
I caught more after switching.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The deep water holes I fish most of the fish are taken on the drop and they see that flutter of the lure irresistible to hit.
I believe it is that wounded bait imitation that does the job, I sussed this out 26 years ago using Eddystone little gems and then Kosters until the local Dexter wedge came out but the same principal applies to any lure that flutters.
 

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Totally agree Keith,
The more natural the presention the more successful it seems to be. I have scaled down lure wise this year, and because of that have had to slow my retrieves right down. Baitfish don't do warp speed in the water. I have paid FAR more attention to current and working the smaller lures with it. Result - Savage takes and alot more bass than last year.
I am being to think that most of the takes I got last year were reaction bites.
I will be looking for venues/marks where I can put the OTD in action, as it used to be lethal for trout epsecially in water/rivers with heavy fishing pressure.
 
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