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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In times gone by, way back when ... a few months ago .... people in the know have talked in bass fishing terms about letting sinking lures (soft and hard) drop on a slack but controlled line. With this, the bait falls pretty much vertically and that has how it's been successfully done. The controlled slack has been important.

However, today it has been raised a couple of times that LRF styles are allowing for a tight drop to be fished, keeping the rod at an angle to the bait and letting it slowly sink in an arc - maintaining contact. The direction of the drop is obviously different from what has been used and recommended before, and this has to be an easier thing to master (rather than watching slack line 'stop')?! I wonder whether it has something to do with the use of Carolina rigs over straight jigheads - which were not so widely advertised before? The Carolina rig, on a tight line, allows the unweighted bait to remain almost horizontal (if the hooks isn't too heavy), whereas the same bait with a jighead (with the same weight) would sink more quickly and at an angle.

Is it the Carolina rig that allows this technique to work, or is it something else? Or is the same technique commonly used for bass, but not talked about? Is a slack, sinking line 'better', or not?

Any thoughts?
 

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However, today it has been raised a couple of times that LRF styles are allowing for a tight drop to be fished, keeping the rod at an angle to the bait and letting it slowly sink in an arc - maintaining contact.
Only if you can't do it properly Ben. Swinging it back and under is just one way.
Another is lowering the rod at a fixed angle.
Another adds grabbing some line and feeding the fall.

In Jap HRF, the top boys use baitcasters to feed the fall.

No shortcuts really Ben, just options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't quite know what you mean mate. I understand the techniques for feeding line and maintaining a direct drop with controlled contact, but just wondering and interested in this case that a more 'simple' hold and sink sounds to be working?
 

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The direction of the drop is obviously different from what has been used and recommended before, and this has to be an easier thing to master (rather than watching slack line 'stop')
You see Ben, this is the bit I think you are misinterpreting. We don't fish a slack line unless....
We can see the line and we are 'V' waking.

You cast, lure hits the water, rod is 90 degree's to the plane of the line and is lowered to get the best vertical sink possible.
When we fish dropping tides along the stones and we don't follow the waterline down, we increase the 'arc' effect. Bites drop away.

Times many, we've got off our arses and moved down to water level to re acquire bites immediately. I can't prove it but, I believe this is because the lure falls on a more perpendicular trajectory from the surface insertion point.

Of course, a simple hold it and swing 'can' work but, ime, to a much lesser degree when compared to more controlled vertical drops.

Hope this makes sense.

We'll get some video Ben.
 

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However, today it has been raised a couple of times that LRF styles are allowing for a tight drop to be fished, keeping the rod at an angle to the bait and letting it slowly sink in an arc - maintaining contact. The direction of the drop is obviously different from what has been used and recommended before, and this has to be an easier thing to master (rather than watching slack line 'stop')?! I wonder whether it has something to do with the use of Carolina rigs over straight jigheads - which were not so widely advertised before? The Carolina rig, on a tight line, allows the unweighted bait to remain almost horizontal (if the hooks isn't too heavy), whereas the same bait with a jighead (with the same weight) would sink more quickly and at an angle.

Is it the Carolina rig that allows this technique to work, or is it something else? Or is the same technique commonly used for bass, but not talked about? Is a slack, sinking line 'better', or not?

Any thoughts?
Not sure I agree with the way the lure will fall but I think it will take some experimentation to prove. I would expect the the weight to follow the line of least resistance in falling to the bottom. With the bail open and no/minimal drag on the line, that will be vertical. With a tight fixed line that will be in an arc where the axis is the rod tip. With a tight line allowing for extra line to be released during the faill it will be somewhere between the two depending on how much line is released.

As for the bait, that will also follow the line of least resistance too but in most cases that will be to follow the weight. the same principal will hold whether the weight is on the hook or seperate. I do not believe the SP will fall horizontally unless it falls at the same rate as the weight and unless my physics are wrong the rate of fall is down to the density and resistance of the lure. The bottom line is that the weight is heavier and more dense than the SP, so the SP will just follow the weight in most if not all cases.

Shoot me down in flames if I am wrong!!!!
 

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It will be interesting to film some lures on the drop when we go to a friends swimming pool in a couple of weeks time. I know it'll be fresh water but the techniques and sinking angles should be the same. I thought the same about what you have asked the other night Ben, I was holding my rod at about a 60 degree angle and seeing the slightest of bends in the tip I knew it was falling in a nice but shallow arc, if the line drooped a bit from the tip I would gently make the line up with the reel. I thought about the times I have done this on the boat with Xlayers and other softies, and how i the boat I would really try my best not to let the lure fall in an arc, but it was excepted whe doing the ULF stuff. Made me wonder if letting your lure sink in an arc with bigger lures isnt such a no no. I should just add that I usually use the V wake method on the boat, and if wanting the lure to fall slower and straighter I would pinch my line in my fingers and slow it. I do find though that on the boat with say 10g jigheads its actually ok to use normal braids of like 0.20 as it sits on the surface and almost creates more drag on the decent, and thus slowing the drop down and more vertical. Babbling a bit there, sorry if none of this post makes any sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Of course, a simple hold it and swing 'can' work but, ime, to a much lesser degree when compared to more controlled vertical drops.
.
that's what I'm actually on about!!!!! Believe it or not I do get the "how to" and it sounds like what I am actually misunderstanding is that you are NOT fishing an arc like I thought you were when I first asked the question? I know you don't actually fish a slack line unless it's visible - unless you have superhuman senses? Alien senses even?! I probably just haven't explained well. To simplify, I was just surprised you were catching on an arc! ... Although **** now says he was?

Mike, depends totally on the amount of weight being used doesn't it. You're right of coarse in that when the weight sinks more quickly the bait will follow, but also consider forward movements and the shape of the bait and how streamlined most are. Even if a weight is pulling them down and forward on an arc, the line to the bait from the weight may be at a steep angle but unless the bait is round, it's going to be forced pretty much horizontal by the water moving past it. Least resistance. That is of coarse assuming the link to your hook can swivel and the weight isn't so much that it just sinks the whole lot at abnormal speed. This is only when swinging it on an arc by the way.

If the weight sinks more slowly that the lure, the tight line will probably result in the lure sinking nose-up, and my own liking would be for the two to sink at the same speed with the mainline arcing to the weight and the trace and bait loosly following that horizontally. I am talking super lightweight here by the way. But there will become a point where the weight is so light that the line will probably just sink in a standard arc as if it were unweighted. With fluoro mainline at least. It may get to the point where it barely sinks at all with anything else. What I'd prefer a bait to do or act could change as the weight increases. Where possible though (following discussions the other day as well) finding a weight that sinks at the same speed as your lure (in a tight drop or a controlled drop scenario) could have many advantes when trying to achieve a natural presentation.

****, videos would definitely be good. There are way too many things that change as you go above and below certain points. Way too much to explain options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
0.20 as it sits on the surface and almost creates more drag on the decent, and thus slowing the drop down and more vertical.
really like the idea of that as well mate, even with the lighter stuff. Could be a killer in a flat calm harbour on a sunny day. I have some of the ultima hollow mono that'd be more than ideal.
 

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It will be interesting to film some lures on the drop when we go to a friends swimming pool in a couple of weeks time.
Friends house? Just do what Toshi san does and build one of these in your back garden...

P1010302..jpg P1010308..jpg P1010304..jpg

Ok so you live in a Flat (penthouse no doubt) so you'll have to ask to missus and off spring to sling their hooks, knock down a few walls and get planning permission... But i genuinely think its worth it :wink:

Just think of the hours of fun you could have. You, a few beers, your plugs and your own personal test tank.
 

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****:

You did hold against a falling jig. less than 2g.
This creates a varied amount of arc depending upon where you are relative to the water level.
As you have also seen, I rarely hold my rod directly above my head, more out to the side.
This way you can watch line reaction and tip reaction whilst retaining that imperative, feel.

I think longer rods make the jig swing more if held still and upright. I also think longer rods allow you slide the line down the 'rabbit hole' whilst creating the least drag yet, maintaining optimum contact.
To teach someone falling contact, choose a paddle tailed lure that you know is swimming in that arc.

No matter what we do, we will always have some arc. long upward sweeps followed by practiced line contact (using a rod at a fixed angle but not a fixed height or distance) will maximise the number of bites and, imo, the number of felt bites.

100% efficient scenario would be...

Cast, contact is maintained, you stop the line from V waking at all and, the jig sinks vertically. Not going to happen ?
Well, actually, it can be optimised. The Japs use those casting eggs in a sliding fashion to achieve more vertical falls.

This stuff is way, way easier to show than to explain. It is making it sound like rocket science, which it most certainly is not. It is, in reality, counter intuitive but, once practiced and the duck is broken, no one so far has questioned it's effectiveness. I guess that speaks volumes.

Video and drawings required guys.
Ben: I know YOU know what I mean I just break stuff down so everyone else does. Remember the geek to normals ratio still holds true, even on here...LOL
I prescribe 2 hours of new tackle therapy for your affliction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
lol, deal. I think I can handle 2 hours. Damn right though about it being easier to show than to talk about. Its definitely sounding overly complicated (I know my bits are). Bit hard for it not to though, without diagrams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Which ones Pauly?
 
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