[Ben Field]

Following Keith et al's recent runs with the Carolina rig, I'm just copying this over from his '32' thread so that it doesn't get lost. Carolina rigs are something that the vast majority (including me) don't really consider very often... but we probably should!

Obviously I have no real practical experience, but fishing theory is fishing theory! ;-)

Ref: http://www.thelureforum.com/showthread.php?t=1920&p=33535

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Its a static Carolina. Really simple. Just a small split shot up the line. Where though makes a difference. Usually, somewhere between 6 and 18". The fish don't take the weight of the jig and, you can fish much smaller lures whilst keeping casting weight reasonable. I took the pouting by, shot hitting bottom and then, the soft lure sinks real show. Just keep in contact, Bang ! fish on.

We'll probably start to find (as you probably already have Keith) that a shorter distance (shot to hook) will be better when fish are really having it, and a longer distance will be necessary when they're not so 'on it'.

There is obviously a huge coarse fishing comparison here when fishing on the drop with light tackle (as you would on the pole), but for those that don't know, the closer to your hook the shot is positioned, the faster the bite will be registered*. If the fish are hungry then this will be a good thing, but if they're being a little more cautious then you might find you miss bites. By lengthening the distance between the shot and the hook you will be giving the fish more time to take the bait before the bite is registered - so hookups will be improved.


In brief:

1. Longer distance for hard days when the fish are cautious.
2. Shorter length when they're hungry.
3. Anywhere in between.

If you are deep-hooking many fish then try shortening the length between shot and hook.
Update/advanced: this may be most relevent when fishing slower or paused retrieves when the weight occasionally has contact with the bottom. On faster or straight retrieves the resistance of the bait will make the bait the 'anchor' and the line to it more direct - so bites are felt more quickly. This is true at least until the baits get so light and slim that it weighs less (and has less resistance) than the weight/shot. At this point then the weight is the most direct item on the line; the bait just follows (so the above/original information becomes relevent).

...Starts to get a bit more complicated when you get in to it.


* Thinking about this theory of weights closer to the hook creating more direct bites, eventually you get as far as having the weight ON the hook - your standard jighead! The Carolina rig should therefore, in theory at least, be better than fishing a jighead on days when the fish are not so aggressive. Jigheads are generally the only types of rigs really used here by the masses, but (including me) the Carolina rig should get a lot more use if the above theory is anything to go by. Jigheads are ideal on only a certain percantage of days. The Carolina rig should be considered when standard jigheads aren't getting the fish.

 

[Ben Field]

Shot Weight

As another comment. Shot weight! One thing to consider is that "lighter isn't always better" - you can go too light - for anybody considering trying the light stuff.

Once you get to the point where the bait and hook has more mass than the shot and sinks more quickly, there is zero point in having the shot on the line. If you are using small shot like this, make sure that it is actually doing something (i.e. improving casting distance or sinking the bait at a more suitable rate), rather than just having it on the line following the bait around and doing nothing. :stupid:

 

[Keith White]

Great thinking Ben and yes, you are right. I think the shot distance at 18" right now could see really deep hooked fish on the drop in warmer water. I reduce or extend mine accordingly.

 

[Ben Field]

Just to correct myself or add a piece to the shot weight bit as well... as well as adding casting distance or sinking the bait, if you want to get clever then you could also use a shot of equal mass to the bait to ensure that the bait comes back through the water horizontally!

A bait rigged direct to the hook will turn upwards when twitched or retrieved. If you have a shot of equal mass at 18" (or whatever) in front of the bait then it will ensure that the baits comes back almost horizontally (when moving).

 

[Keith White]

Just to correct myself or add a piece to the shot weight bit as well... as well as adding casting distance or sinking the bait, if you want to get clever then you could also use a shot of equal mass to the bait to ensure that the bait comes back through the water horizontally!

A bait rigged direct to the hook will turn upwards when twitched or retrieved. If you have a shot of equal mass at 18" (or whatever) in front of the bait then it will ensure that the baits comes back almost horizontally.

Yes, this is one of the benefits of swimming carolina. The weight of a shot, a casting egg etc AND the fact that FC sinks readily helps the swimming carolina presentation maintain a regular depth. A floating casting egg, Olivette and swimming lure holds at set depth even better.

 

[Tim Griffin]

So what weight of shot were you fishing last night and in what sort of depth, Keith? I assume you are using freshwater shot you just pinch onto the line?

 

[Ben Field]

Need to go to my dads and dig my olivettes out actually! Got plenty up to about 5g (more than heavy enough for anywhere in Cornwall).

Reason I mention equal mass is also because it'll probably force baits to sink a little more horizontally too. And sinking horizontally will mean they fall more slowly (lovely jubbley!!) - for anybody not sure what the hell we're on about here.

 

[Keith White]

So what weight of shot were you fishing last night and in what sort of depth, Keith? I assume you are using freshwater shot you just pinch onto the line?

Yep.

Exactly that. On this occasion and a few others anyway. Really simple stuff.

I tried various weights from SSG to 2 or 3 X No4 until I settled on 1 X no1 shot 18" from the hook.
SSG to start as it was windy and the water deeper, say 14 feet, toward the end, maybe 8, 9 ft ?
As current intercedes, add a shot, slows or wind drops, remove one. I think we get shot bites too.

So, like when hemp fishing I'm going to start using a longer string of smaller shot.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ben Field]

Here are some freshwater shot weights Tim. Off the top of my head.

No.10: 0.04g
No.8: 0.06g
No.6: 0.1g
No.4: 0.2g
No.1: 0.3g
BB: 0.4g
AAA: 0.8g
SSG: 1.6g

They're the standard sizes. There are odd ones inbetween as well, and bigger ones when you start looking (2SSG and 3SSG).

Problem we have here is that freshwater shot on sale in the UK has to be lead-free above a no.8. Lead shot is much softer and nicer to use than the lead-free versions we have in the UK. In the sea, using lead shot would be perfectly legal, but buying some here will be practically impossible. Lead-free will do the job though.

 

[Tim Griffin]

Perfect - cheers, Keith. Will get some shot next time I am near a tackle shop. Gives a simple alternative to fishing the lure on a jig head when some weight is required to get the lure down to the fish. Do you really think the very small (I assume freshwater?) hooks are essential too?

One last question on this topic guys - I will be fishing with the 8lb PowerPro braid. What FC leader would you suggest? I have some light mono in stock but no light FC at this point. Any ideas before I go out and get a spool or two?

 

[Keith White]

Do you really think the very small (I assume freshwater?) hooks are essential too?

Oh yes, absolutely.
I guess it depends on how far you want to take it. We are out to catch 'everything'.

However:-

I would choose a heavier wire, maybe sizes 6, 8, 10 and 12. I've got down to 16's in heavier wire too. Smaller trout fly hooks are probably best or spade end feeder hooks for commercial Carp use.

These hooks will have multiple use for LRF...

floats, bombarda, casting eggs, flying stingers, perhaps Mulleting too ?

At about a quid a pack its not going to hurt and could seriously enhance a day's fishing.

Don't worry about small hooks. You are going to start hearing lots of crap about small hooks, light lines etc but, take it from me, a big chub, say 3, 4 lb on a forged 22 on 2.5lb line is safer than the same fish on a heavier rod with a wider gape finer wire 12 or 14. They just work. But, you need the rod, and the drag set to protect both the line AND the bend of the hook. Thousands of coarse fishermen and fly anglers do this day in, day out on fish bigger than we are targeting (Bass included) and they suffer how many issues ?
Mullet anglers do it to a great extent too. Hook ups are going to be better too. These light rods with 0.6mm tips aren't built to set 3/0 hooks.

 

[Mike Kennard]

Just caught up with this thread. Good stuff. My first thoughts on 'balancing the rig' to make it sink horizontally I think you should be looking at relative density not relative weight. You could have something the same weight as a shot that floats. (sorry if I have misunderstood - in a rush). Also, some SPs float so the distance between the SP and the weight will effect the height above the bottom.

 

[Ben Field]

Just caught up with this thread. Good stuff. My first thoughts on 'balancing the rig' to make it sink horizontally I think you should be looking at relative density not relative weight. You could have something the same weight as a shot that floats. (sorry if I have misunderstood - in a rush). Also, some SPs float so the distance between the SP and the weight will effect the height above the bottom.

Yep, that's what I was trying to get at Mike, don't worry. Although after a point I think I stopped explaining it and just referred to it as mass (which itself obviously doesn't include friction, drag or resistance). Like tuning different sink rates on lures, this'd be the same but probably a bit easier with small shot being easier to add and remove than hooks and split-rings etc.

Re: floating baits a certain depth above the bottom - hadn't thought too much about that! Lots of possibilities there though over rough ground!

 

[Keith White]

Re: floating baits a certain depth above the bottom - hadn't thought too much about that! Lots of possibilities there though over rough ground!

Oh...

You are so last year Ben..

 

[Ben Field]

Haha. I'd agree with that! When you consider that last year was my first proper year anywhere even near a lure rod, I don't think I'm doing too bad:wackit2:

 

[Mick Ward]

Is it better to have a floating lure when Carolina fishing, or is it just a case of a floating lure and sinking lure are two different types of carolina fishing styles? I can see the benifits of both really. This thread has made me realise a few things and thank you Ben and Keith for some of the input, I didnt think anout the fact of different lengths of snood (so to speak) making a difference, probably because I have never course fished. Cheers, carolina will be gettingf used alot more now.

 

[Keith White]

Cheers, carolina will be gettingf used alot more now.

By Mr Butel too after tonight Mick. He's seen the light...

 

[Ben Field]

Yeah, I think it probably depends on where you are and what you're fishing for Mick. Unless you were using a fair bit of weight and bouncing it along the bottom/rocks, I think that a sinker will be most useful. Ideally a slow sinker? You can always add shot to the hook to get a floating or slow sinking bait to drop more quickly, but getting a fast sinking bait to sink slowly is more difficult.

I guess that it's much like selecting a fly line?! Assuming you're using a slow, steadyish retrieve, in deep water you'd select a fast sinker and in shallow water you could be best off with a floater or slow sinker? Makes sense to me at least. I think it also just seems sensible to weight it in such a way that it compliments the bait. I.e slow sinker = very little weight. Fast sinker = weight to match the sink rate, or more to get it down there.

There will be different uses too for the likes of the floating baits fished deep, or fished as slow floaters when paused. Soft lure choices could probably become quite an art! Although choosing the right one probably won't be that different to making the right plug choice. Those with more experience are obviously already in to this, but it's making more sense to me now on exactly how you'd do it. Maybe fishing floating baits for Wrasse etc over rough ground needs it's own thread, Keith? I so nearly bought some of those floating worms off you the other day as well!

 

[Keith White]

Maybe fishing floating baits for Wrasse etc over rough ground needs it's own thread, Keith?

I think so too.

 

[Retired]

By Mr Butel too after tonight Mick. He's seen the light...

It's certainly brighter than it was. I think I've shyed away because with heavier tackle I've always tried to avoid that rig, ie putting weight before lure, because where it tends to catch pollack. LRF is a different game though.