[Mike Hayes]

Having read a few things regarding C & R, as a festival organiser I would love to make the Weymouth Meet/Festival next year 100 % C & R. With this in mind I would like to hear ideas or advice regarding C & R and how to realistically implement them into this years Weymouth festival. Obviously the benefits would be:

1) Protection of stocks.
2) Projection of a more modern positive attitude towards conservation.
3) Happy anglers.

Now taking into account the fact that I am planning a C & R section prize into next years festival, the implementing of total C & R you would think would be simple enough. But I dont have a great level of experience in the comp fishing scene, so I was planning to do it gradually. This years event was kept simple, mainly because it was the first. Im pretty sure most were happy? so next years was going to be along the same guidelines but with the C & R prize added for people to aim for. Obviously if you were to go for the C & R, youre hardly going to weigh-in for the main prizes. But also the C & R needs to well prized to attract the entrants. Although not everyone is interested in the prizes as a whole.

Next years C & R prize section was gonna to arranged as follows, please bear in mind the lack of match experience here.

Each entrant for the C & R prize were going to be given a tape with the festival original markings and to qualify, all that would be needed was a photo with the fish and tape. Fish primarly measured in length to be recorded for the prize. Simply adopting this into the main prizes to have a complete C & R would appear simple but for these inherent issues that are preventing it.

1) Photos may be of poor quality, therefore making length distinction tricky. ( Not everyone has good quality cameras, some may have none)
2) Actually getting a photo of the complete fish, in focus with the measure clearly showing.
3) Photos of caught fish that are extremely close in length (where milimeters get involved) Hard to judge based on a photo alone.
4) Abuse of photos.

Obviously these issues would also be present in the current idea for a C & R section next year within the other prize sections as well.

The best way but not at all practical would be to have the festival marshalled, but being a roving comp this could prove impossible due to the marks and distances etc. I even thought about each pair etc having a marshall but again impossible. I understand alot of professional events practice C & R especially in france, but with the use of boats and measuring boats this would be ideal. But we aint using boats and im slowly going insane with all this typing....

Thoughts please, dont want the festival or its entrants being looked down or labelled as fish killers by anyone.

Mick spoke to me ref the french comps as I didnt have a clue

 

[Mick Ward]

Its a tricky one indeed Mike, all I can suggest is a peice of guttering capped at one end with a measure glued in the bottom and maybe marked every 5cm with a marker pen so one can count the marks even from a full length photo. I would also suggest a three or four fish total length for the C&R prize, and if two anglers have exactly the same length over three of four fish then the one with the longest single fish out of the three or four wins. Maybe that will work, as the chances of two anglers having the same length in total and both their longest fish being exact are pretty steep odds. The guttering can be made by the angler or we can get some made with a £10 deposit from the anglers. Its a dick of a thing to have to carry around, but a couple of holes and a shoulder strap will make it easier, and after all if its all for the good of the bass then surely its a small price to pay.

 

[Andy Mason]

How about making C&R compulsory in the pairs comp? That way you've always got a buddy on hand to assist in photos, measuring and carrying the drain pipe. Photo of the fish, photo of the man who caught it. Make the tapes or tubes a certain colour/type etc and it'll make the photos unique to that year. A simple photo of a fish in a tube on it own could be falsified with a dead big fish, maybe adding extra perameters to the photos would ensure a just C&R with no funny business.

 

[Steve Lewis]

How about making C&R compulsory in the pairs comp? That way you've always got a buddy on hand to assist in photos, measuring and carrying the drain pipe. Photo of the fish, photo of the man who caught it. Make the tapes or tubes a certain colour/type etc and it'll make the photos unique to that year. A simple photo of a fish in a tube on it own could be falsified with a dead big fish, maybe adding extra perameters to the photos would ensure a just C&R with no funny business.

I have thought a bit about this and taking photo's with a tape measure is the way to go. Anglers should fish with 2 in the party to allow the fish to be photographed ASAP and allow release without stress, most if not all camera phones are at least 1.3 megapixel these days and part of the rules could be "No Camera & Tape" no prize. I would also expect all anglers to take a photo of a card or some other object that is only available on the day and known to the organizers after the have registered, this would stop anyone arriving with pre-taken photo's being able to use them, as photo's only taken after the one of the object will count !

Hope this make sense !!

 

[Ben Field]

I think the guttering idea is definitely better than tape as far as this one's concerned. Like Mick says, with a stop at one end it'll be much more accurate, easier and quicker to use than a tape. It is a competition afterall and not a sunday bumble, so all involved should be prepared to have to carry the extra item - with it just being par for the course. (could there even end up being a market here for semi-collapsable measuring pipes??!)

So much relies on trust, it's tricky....

One more thing to rely on, honesty wise, is people's 2nd, 3rd and 4th fish. There are days when you catch 2 or more fish of exactly the same size so there'd be nothing to stop an angler who's caught one fish from taking multiple photos and claiming that it was 2 or 3 fish?.....

Although, here's an idea.................

In the case of Weymouth where a pairs event is already involved, how about pairing up pairs (or individuals) with a 'draw' on the day it all begins? This way, if 2 pairs (or 2 random individuals) are always fishing together then each will HAVE to be honest because they will have company at all times - with a signature required on the 'results' sheet by both anglers to confirm that the fish has been caught. Not only will it introduce people to eachother, it would add an extra element to it - wondering whether you'll draw a local expert or a travelling Googan. Local experts will have to accept the fact that they have the choice whether or not to take their drawn partner to their 'secret' marks, but if they do then all the better for the lucky traveller who drew them. It should massively promote the sharing of information allround!They will have to realise when entering the comp that they may end up having to reveal some secrets. This will also make it easier (in general) to openly allow guides to fish. In fact, it would surely be a buzz for a total googan to draw with a guide and have their company for the whole comp??! It will require good communication between the anglers and the realisation that it will involve a commitment to fish harder than they had expected - but really I suppose it's just one of the commitments made when entering?

Speaking from the view of an individual comp, the 'drawn' pair would have to make a plan between them; to where and when to base their attack(s). With any fish being caught whitnessed and signed for by both anglers. Of coarse, if more than one pair or group of individuals want to join up and fish together then that's fine too.

With regards to 'drawing', you could split all names in to 2 hats. One hat containing all the local anglers, the other the travellers. If there are more travellers than locals then some of them can randomly be selected to join the locals hat. If there are more locals than travellers then it'd be the other way around, with locals being randomly selected to be included in the travellers hat - until the numbers are equal. Then one name is drawn from each hat to make up the random pairs (required for signatures - not for fishing/qualifying in the pairs comp). If 2 people are planning on actually fishing the pairs comp then they can fish with whomever the like (their partner) but instead of just one name going in the hat for each angler, both names would be marked on one entry. As long as each pair or individual is drawn with another random angler/pair from the bag then everything will be sweet - which will minimise any chance of cheating.

Whether this is a rubbish idea or not, a requirement for signatures could solve a couple of issues. If it is a pairs competition then it would be neceessary for 2 pairs (drawn) to shadow eachother or work together for the competition. If it's part of how a C&R comp works then people will get used to it.

If an individual or pair fail to fish with the other 'drawn' pair/individual, then they will be blacklisted from future events. Bad reports from anglers about their partners will be noted for future reference.

Needs some tidying up, but if that makes sense to anybody else then I reckon it may just work...... :rollineyes:

 

[Mick Ward]

Can you imagine if I got a certain person to fish with!!! :badlol: And if Mike got his partner :laserswords: It certainly would be a laugh I grant you that mate

 

[Ben Field]

LOL, in my dream world it would happen like above. in reality you may not actually want to talk to eachother.... :rofl: I dunno. It's a little bit outside the box but from a shore C&R point of view, it really just needs credible whitness signatures (i.e. probably random to save your 'mate' just signing something for you) and photos.

 

[Ben Field]

Who know's, it might even force people to get on :horsesword: If people don't get on with it then they just can't win.... :laserswords:

 

[Steve Lewis]

Good reply Ben and worth the read, I am going to the festival to meet like minded anglers, learn from people and have a good time socially, I am not really interested in winning anything,it is a shame that organizers will have to go to great lengths to make the results fair because of the fear of people cheating :!: :!:

 

[Ben Field]

Good reply Ben and worth the read, I am going to the festival to meet like minded anglers, learn from people and have a good time socially, I am not really interested in winning anything,it is a shame that organizers will have to go to great lengths to make the results fair because of the fear of people cheating :!: :!:

Tis very true Steve. I imagine most of us are exactly the same.

Spose it's less of an actual fear of cheating to start with, more a 'what if' for the organisers and the anglers. If everything is just relaxed and easy, eventually somebody WILL be dishonest - and that will tear the whole thing apart. By placing necessary deterrents in there from the start, the rules are set and it will remain more stable.

I'm not suggesting that the way above is 100% the way it should be done and whatever Mike comes up with will probably be adjusted each year until it's just right, but however it's done, I think whitness signatures will make a big difference. As long as they're not signatures from your mates. Or wife. Or dog. The above's just an idea on how that might be done.

 

[Steve Lewis]

Can you imagine if I got a certain person to fish with!!! :badlol: And if Mike got his partner :laserswords: It certainly would be a laugh I grant you that mate

Mick, (Don)

We could allways send the boys around with a horses head to their hotel room :evil: :twisted:

 

[Mike Hayes]

Ok, im considering the DP way with a total measure caught over four fish. Its just not practical to extend it over the whole prize board as a first attempt. 1st attempt maybe 25%, next 50% and then ideally 100%. We shall see how it works out.

 

[Alex Jordan]

Think the draw idea is tops - the guttering also (add another 5ver to cover the cost of the measuring device and have them coded for each 4 man team to prove the authenticity of the photos?)

 

[Andrew Wilson]

One more thing to rely on, honesty wise, is people's 2nd, 3rd and 4th fish. There are days when you catch 2 or more fish of exactly the same size so there'd be nothing to stop an angler who's caught one fish from taking multiple photos and claiming that it was 2 or 3 fish?.....

Maybe get a measured shot and a release shot/avi per fish although again this may not be practical, most phones and cams now have a movie clip function though, its a shame there isnt a fish friendly dye or paint that you could spot/ number the fish with to stop doubling up between pairs:badlol:

Last year there was a minimum size of 3lb for a fish to count, obviously this was to stop any of the smaller fish being knocked on the head. What size limit if any would apply to C&R? Last year also without the C&R there was not a great number of bass killed and the ones which were, all went to the fishmongers and sold on to raise money.

I think at some point you have to sit back and rely on trust, if someone is gonna cheat then theres nothing to stop them aquiring a lunker and taking a shot of it with the pipe, its there conscience they have to live with, this will be the problem as the competition gets bigger.

 

[Ben Field]

Tis all very true Mossey. That's why I think that if we just had a simple required signature from another angler then all the problems would be solved.

I'm sure that nobody will really mind fishing with another pair/individual. Its a competition and their (it seems) only other option is to kill the fish they catch for proof, or have the organisers just believe their every word - without question?????????????.........

Like I've said, it's not quite a sunday bumble. Personally I see it as quite exciting to be doing something a little different though. It can still be fun with just a couple more (necessary) rules in place. Would people prefer to be secretive and suspect, or would they be happy to take 2 other anglers (max) to their preferred fishing area (or be taken to a better mark than they had planned?)? 2/4 heads are better than one afterall!

It also levels the ground a bit - mixing travelling anglers with locals. Maybe the Weymouth anglers would object to start with - but I suppose I'm thinking longer term here too to the 'series' if that happens - something we can really use that actually works for all UK shore based C&R events.

While it's a new idea people will not have the confidence to try it but IMO, if we don't try something different, eventually dishonesty will kill it.

You'd sign a score card in golf, why not in fishing?

 

[Keith White]

Having read a few things regarding C & R, as a festival organiser I would love to make the Weymouth Meet/Festival next year 100 % C & R.

awesome !

plastic half pipe, slung over your back, camera, measure on the pipe. nose to one end, a sealed end.
slide fish in, photo, slide fish back. minimal handling.

 

[Dave Irving]

First let me say I am 100% in favour of C&R for competition,
However the issue of pairs fishing alone together has to be faced, and possibably fiddling the results. Now I will say that 99.9% of the people I met there last year I would never doubt. However it is better to get things sorted BEFORE any problems. A coloured taped provided by the organiser, would stop anyone getting clever with doctored tapes. And splitting up pairs also would reduce the temptation.
Really don't want to put a downer on things, as I think the C&R is really the way forward for any bass fishing competition.
Getting the details right will open the door to a national series (fingers crossed)

 

[Alex Jordan]

The photo in the guttering is a good bet - colour coded or a different word with date each day inside the guttering to prove the fish was caught that day (obv doesn't stop anyone having a frozen lunker ina backpack but that is going to extremes!)

roll on Sep!

 

[Dave Irving]

As long as it signed for by someone other than their partner, that should make even the frozen lunker hard to pull off.

 

[Ben Field]

As long as it signed for by someone other than their partner, that should make even the frozen lunker hard to pull off.

Exactly. I realy do think that signatures are the way to go. Just means people either have to organise themselves to fish with other people, or be organised. If the anglers can police themselves then it will make organising such events much, much easier. No worrying about stewards, organising checks for photos and videos etc etc - just fish whitnessed by competing anglers. Of coarse, photos will still be necessary for further proof of a winner, but if they're whitnessed as well (with signature) then it rules out pretty much everything in the way of sneakyness.