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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As some of you may be aware I have taken a keen interest in LRF over the last couple of months. Faced with an enormous learning curve I have been hunting the internet and hammering translation programmes researching LRF and LRF Tackle.
And I am learning that many things we take as fact-just isn't so.
Now we tend to believe the we use solid tip rods for bite detection, they make it easier to detect a bite on a small lightly weighted SP sinking through the water column. But that just isn't why the japanese use solid tip rods-time after time I have asked on japanese forums, read reviews, and comments about rods-not a single mention that a solid tip is for bite detection. But what is commented on again and again- is that solid tip rods allows the fish to inhale the lure more easily-what japanese call suction bites. Some species seem to be VERY sensitive to any resistance when hitting the lure. Aji/Scad/Horse Mackerel (weighs from a few ounces to about 3lbs) being the most commonly commented on. These rods are commonly referred to as Aji rods in japan-still LRF, but a sub division of it.
Aji rods are generally those used with either very light jigheads 0.2-1.5g, or with a casting system similar to a bombarda rig up to about 5g. They are concidered slightly passive, the fish should almost hook it's self-or you are doing something wrong-resistance!!
Hollow tip rods are used mainly for Mebaru fishing - a rock/reef fish that runs again from a few ounces to a couple of pounds), in Japan Mebaru fishing is normally vertical fishing, and the bites are hard and very fast. i.e. they can mouth and reject a bait incredibably quickily. So the rods (hollow tipped) are faster actioned to allow faster hook sets, be that on jigheads/sp, jigs, Ice plugs, or even float rigs. Contact with the lure is EVERYTHING it seems with Mebaru fishing, as a second of slack line could mean a missed bite.

So which is better?? For the UK???
Neither/Both
Both rods will happily catch fish in the UK, and as the techniques and species we target expand one or other of these rods might prove to be better suited to targetting a particular species. Only time and the in put of UK anglers will tell. I would be very interested to hear if what is being said in Japan, seems to hold true in the UK. There is a whole world of techniques still out there in Japan as part of what they call LRF/Aji fishing that so far haven't been mentioned (or even tried), and it is going to be interesting matching those techniques to UK species.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
And before anyone asks, which rod I will be buying-One of each is the answer!!
 

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Nice one Dave - I've been meaning to find all that out :D

Seriously though, you are definitely right in the fact that there is still a lot to learn. UK anglers can't possibly have it all sussed in just 1 or 2 seasons, surely? I'm embracing this right now, literally only just though. Luckily enough I live near a pretty huge harbour with lots of species, so hope that my learning curve is steep and short(to an extent).

It's just as exciting to me, as when I first discovered lure fishing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Matt,
You are just as likely to discover things as any of us. Getting out there and doing it (LRF) in as many different locations, after as many different species as possible, is going to be the quickest way to work out the whats/where/when and hows of LRF in the UK. But the really great thing about LRF, is that you can catch so many fish as we learn. And the more we compare results, the faster we can establish techniques/tackle/conditions keyed to our UK species.
 

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Cheers for that Dave, that makes a lot of sense. I've tried finding out this kind of stuff but never made any headway, perhaps with a couple of those keywords, Merabu and Aji, I'll make more progress.
 

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Thank you Dave, I can imagine the research you had to do to find this stuff out, fair play to you for sharing it. The solid/hollow tip explanation makes sense, but like you say it will take time to see patterns in how our species hit and act with micro lures. I have always thougt of pollack as agressive fish once they have made their mind up they are going to have the lure, so maybe a hollow tip would be better for fishing the drop for pollack? Now thats going against all I have thought, read and witnessed...... Great this isnt it, it gets you thinking again. You are right, I will have to try it myself with both.
 

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That's interesting about solid/hollow tip, its something that I hadn't really considered but I suppose it makes sense. You're absolutely right though, I'm sure that we've only scratched the surface over here with the lrf/hrf stuff and I know that personally I'm at the bottom of a steep learning curve but I've no doubt that it'll be a lot of fun trying to suss this stuff out. Much like yourself although clearly with less success, I've spent the last few weeks on the translation sites reading up on lrf/hrf and watching as many lrf/hrf videos as I can find, even though I can't understand a bloody word they're saying.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
****,
In the case of Pollack, I wonder if during OTD the pollack might be using that huge mouth of theirs to suction feed-forcing their mouth open fast to inhale the lure. Which would surgest a solid tip rods might be better suited. The japanese recon if you are getting lots of plucks and pulls - but no hook ups, on a hollow tip, then switch to a solid tip, which allows the fish to draw the bait more easily into it's mouth. In general OTD techniques in japan, seem to be much more common in Aji fishing, than in mebaru.
One thing that does come up often is the japanese rate hollow tips with small hard baits, be they plugs, jigs or ice fishing jigs.
The main thing is it is just too early to start saying which rod types are best, we need to get out and catch lots of fish. Hopefully as more and more people start LRF fishing, patterns will become obivous.
 

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The 2 species I had this evening were very different on the take. The Pollack seemed to take the lure more aggressively, a small tap followed by shaking and a short run. The Whiting, I was not really aware I had hooked a fish. It was only when twitching after a pause, the tip felt heavy. Winding into it, after applying more pressure, it's as if the fish woke up, and then gave a short spirited fight, a lot less immediate than the pollack. As it was my first session, will be interesting to see how the patterns develop.
 

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Paul, the pollack I caught LRF tonight was almost exactly the same experience. A little later I had other bites (didn't hook properly so not sure what they were) that were initially exactly how you describe the whiting. Interesting.
 

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Another interesting thead! You can do it all with one rod though. That is until you can afford another, and another......!!!! Indeed lots to learn. I can see no end of LRF bubmles in the near future. A brilliant way of keeping our lure fishing going through the Winter months. Woohoo. (I need to get out more)
 

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I wonder if it has anything to do with the long sharp teeth that Whiting have compared to the Pollack? Or maybe the under slung jaw of the Whiting as opposed to the big lower lip and big mouth of the Pollack?
 

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As some of you may be aware I have taken a keen interest in LRF over the last couple of months. Faced with an enormous learning curve I have been hunting the internet and hammering translation programmes researching LRF and LRF Tackle.
And I am learning that many things we take as fact-just isn't so.
Now we tend to believe the we use solid tip rods for bite detection, they make it easier to detect a bite on a small lightly weighted SP sinking through the water column. But that just isn't why the japanese use solid tip rods-time after time I have asked on japanese forums, read reviews, and comments about rods-not a single mention that a solid tip is for bite detection. But what is commented on again and again- is that solid tip rods allows the fish to inhale the lure more easily-what japanese call suction bites. Some species seem to be VERY sensitive to any resistance when hitting the lure. Aji/Scad/Horse Mackerel (weighs from a few ounces to about 3lbs) being the most commonly commented on. These rods are commonly referred to as Aji rods in japan-still LRF, but a sub division of it.
Aji rods are generally those used with either very light jigheads 0.2-1.5g, or with a casting system similar to a bombarda rig up to about 5g. They are concidered slightly passive, the fish should almost hook it's self-or you are doing something wrong-resistance!!
Hollow tip rods are used mainly for Mebaru fishing - a rock/reef fish that runs again from a few ounces to a couple of pounds), in Japan Mebaru fishing is normally vertical fishing, and the bites are hard and very fast. i.e. they can mouth and reject a bait incredibably quickily. So the rods (hollow tipped) are faster actioned to allow faster hook sets, be that on jigheads/sp, jigs, Ice plugs, or even float rigs. Contact with the lure is EVERYTHING it seems with Mebaru fishing, as a second of slack line could mean a missed bite.

So which is better?? For the UK???
Neither/Both
Both rods will happily catch fish in the UK, and as the techniques and species we target expand one or other of these rods might prove to be better suited to targetting a particular species. Only time and the in put of UK anglers will tell. I would be very interested to hear if what is being said in Japan, seems to hold true in the UK. There is a whole world of techniques still out there in Japan as part of what they call LRF/Aji fishing that so far haven't been mentioned (or even tried), and it is going to be interesting matching those techniques to UK species.
Anybody who has done a bit of feeder fishing with quiver tip rods will realise that Dave is spot on.
 
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Been out again tonight, will put a little report of my findings on here tomorrow. Caught 3 fish LRF on 3 different lures, in 3 different ways. I will say though, not all of those taps are even bights, possibly not even half in my case. Was clearly watching pollock and Pouting 'flank' the lure, but not committing to even mouthing it. This stuff has got my attention big time.... Need to wake up though, my reactions are not ninja..... Yet.
 

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My memory of fishing with quiver tip rods etc was that they showed bites very well at the tip,,,,,BUT there was never much feel with a solid tip.
Its hollow tips all the way for me............
 

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My memory of fishing with quiver tip rods etc was that they showed bites very well at the tip,,,,,BUT there was never much feel with a solid tip.
Its hollow tips all the way for me............
Nick, I agree but that is because they weren't designed to. I have a JDM finesse bass rod made for fishing SPs and the difference is incredible. Most quiver tips are glass, they are just designed to bend and offer as little resistance to fish as possible. Solid tip rods on the other hand are designed to bend and offer as little resistance as possbile too but because most if not all are carbon they also transmit any vibration into the blank,
So although they sound similar they behave completely differently.
 

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...Need to wake up though, my reactions are not ninja..... Yet.
Funny, Callum and I were only saying this an hour or two ago (not that you are slow Matt!!) We were saying that when you begin at LRF you dont even notice the taps sometimes, its like you are not tuned in, if you know what I mean. I remember the first time I started to actually think - hang on, something happened there- and by the time I had thought that I had missed the chance to flick my wrist to see if I made contact with a fish. You need to almost have a hair trigger, be tuned in to feel for slightest of touches and just flick the lure with a quick twist of the wrist. Well it all sounds easy, so why do I keep on not being quick enough!! :)
 
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