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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering.....

We are staring to see a lot of Gulp style baits being used. These are, I think, made of reconstituted maize (ie organic) or something, not plastic.

We are also seeing a lot of natural scents and attractants creeping in (although most SP addicts coming out of the woodwork have been using them for tens of years). Like the stuff that Gulp is bathed in.

My questions are simple but maybe controversial. Excuse me if its a bit picky and technical :geek: but that never stopped anyone before:-

If a lure is not made of soft plastic then is it a soft plastic? I would say it isn't but I'd like to hear a counterargument.

If it isn't made of soft plastic then is it just a lure? I would say it is but again I'd like to hear a counterargument

If it is an organic sponge full of natural attractants then is it a lure at all or just an organic sponge full of natural attractants. I would say the latter, and if they are natural attractants then isn't that just a moving bait?

Otherwise you could fill a soft swimfeeder with crab, tie on some rubber band legs and call it an SP. OK I admit the thought has been crossing my mind!:mrgreen:

I would be interested to know where you all think the dividing line is?

Now, what was in that coffee?
 

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I've been thinking along the same lines Paul, but haven't bitten the bullet and put it in a post, so well done.

As I see it, if Gulp is a natural product (ie not synthetic) then it is not a SP, or lure.

Mind you is latex a naturally occuring substance?
 

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Gulp is an artificial bait. recognised on both the US and Japanese professional circuits.

do you want to go back to redgills ?

Most of our artificial soft lures are impregnated in some way Paul.

Does it matter.

At the end of the day, its the terminology of 'soft plastic' that is incorrect.

It should be....

Hard bait and soft bait, just like it is in the US to stop the confusion.

Huge grey area that will never be solved. Like purist fly fishing. Nymphing is seen as cheating in purist dry fly circles.

Not getting into it further really. Can of worms best left closed.

Everyone will make their own choices.

American Bass Rules said:
13. TACKLE AND EQUIPMENT:
Only artificial lures may be used. No "live bait" or "prepared bait" will be permitted during official practice and competition, with the exception of pork strips, rinds, etc. Only one rod and reel combination may be used at one time. No fly rods or rods over 8 feet are allowed. Trolling as a method of fishing is prohibited. All bass must be caught live and in a conventional sporting manner. All angling must be done from the boat and anglers must stay on tournament waters during tournament hours. Anglers are not permitted to leave the boat to land a fish or leave the boat to gain access to secluded waters. Boats must remain in tournament waters during tournament day/days. Competitors must leave and return to official checkpoint by boat. Both competitors must remain in boat at all times except in case of dire emergency. In such an emergency, competitors may be removed from their boat to: A BOAT OPERATED BY OTHER COMPETITORS, A RESCUE BOAT DESIGNATED BY THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR OR TO DISLODGE THEIR BOAT FROM A HAZARD. Partners must remain together at all times, in sight of each other and each other's catch, under the conditions cited above, in order for their catch of that day to be scored in the tournament. Citizen band radios, marine radios and cellular phones are allowed in the boat for emergency use only. Any transmission of information via any communicative device concerning any aspect of fishing is prohibited during tournament hours.
Good enough for a massively established lure nation, good enough for me.
 

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The problem starts to come with competitions though as this develops. Is a lure prize open to someone using artificial bait (since it's not a lure) and so on.

I don't know if I know the answer or even what I think til I meet the situation.

Can of worms as Keith says.
 

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Tis a good question I think. Gulps had me thinking about it too lately. Agree with Keith though I think. The term "Soft Plastic" is only really a name that we've given made up ourselves - probably to a certain degree just because it sounds better than "soft bait" and is easily abbreviated to SP. If we get to the point where we start questioning it, I think a move to hard bait and soft bait would solve it all. Gulp too is an artificial bait/replication so is still a man-made lure - but doesn't fit with our own name making of SP (I've said that). I don't think SP is necessarily a good name for soft baits.

Things will develop to the point that we have multiple companies similar to gulp all trying to make articificial baits seem as life-like as possible. In fact, all hard baits and soft baits will all probably end up being very natural looking! I think the line will probably just have to br drawn at 'natural' and 'artificial'.
 

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Very interesting question and has me scartching my head. Is it actually significant or just semantics? I think that the definitions are flawed right now. SP as a term may have to go as there are all sorts of grey areas including some plugs with soft bodies/coatings - how would you define those? As regards where we draw the line between lures and fake baits, well who knows. Imitation baits like some of the ragworm stuff has been around a while and clearly works. As it isn't a bait it must be a lure - right?
 

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I use pork.

It bears no resemblance to the pork you might think of.

It is there mostly for its action and brilliant resistance to toothy fish.

Soft lure, end of.

This thread could become very self destructive.

We are effectively questioning...

Did any of Liams Wrasse count ?
Gaz's ?

What about any fish caught using scented or impregnated soft lures ?

So, effectively, I could ban all salt, scent, everything not plastic from the Wrasse challenge..

oh, what about colour, plastics are artificially coloured too..

latex, naturally is a bland colour.

Honestly, stop questioning the validity of this because it is wrong.

soft bait, soft lure, just like everywhere else.

Accept that, just like every other lure fishing nation.

On the verge of starting something potentially quite exciting on the soft lures scene, this thread is in fear of undoing alot of hard work.
 

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I was wondering.....

We are staring to see a lot of Gulp style baits being used. These are, I think, made of reconstituted maize (ie organic) or something, not plastic.

We are also seeing a lot of natural scents and attractants creeping in (although most SP addicts coming out of the woodwork have been using them for tens of years). Like the stuff that Gulp is bathed in.

My questions are simple but maybe controversial. Excuse me if its a bit picky and technical :geek: but that never stopped anyone before:-

If a lure is not made of soft plastic then is it a soft plastic? I would say it isn't but I'd like to hear a counterargument.

If it isn't made of soft plastic then is it just a lure? I would say it is but again I'd like to hear a counterargument

If it is an organic sponge full of natural attractants then is it a lure at all or just an organic sponge full of natural attractants. I would say the latter, and if they are natural attractants then isn't that just a moving bait?

Otherwise you could fill a soft swimfeeder with crab, tie on some rubber band legs and call it an SP. OK I admit the thought has been crossing my mind!:mrgreen:

I would be interested to know where you all think the dividing line is?

Now, what was in that coffee?
Hi Paul,

Maybe we should concentrate on LURE size instead of what lures are constructed of.
 

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Interesting thread. I started to think about this when I saw the tiny peice od Gulp that the smelt was caught on recently. Is a Gulp bait any less a natural bait than a boilie? Does it matter?

My own view is that it has never in its entirety been alive. Therefore it is an artificial bait and the fact that it is not made of plastic doesn't alter the way it is fished, ie in the manner of an artificial bait.

Definitely a grey area though.
 

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I am with Keith,
I think we all know what is commonly referred to as a SP, be it made of one of half a dozen types of plastic, or maize, pork grind or what ever.
 

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So, I guess the point is...

should we change the terminology NOW before it gets so ingrained it becomes hard to undo ?

we all term hard lures as plugs generally but they aren't all plastic either.

wood, metal jigs, etc etc..

All artificial but wood is organic and was alive ?

I motion we ban all balsa plugs now !

LOL

Go check for scratches on your rods Paul. You are being way to controversial but, it is a subject that is borderline i agree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ouch, crikey. Just an honest question or three!

1. I certainly wasn't questioning anyone's catches or any competition standings (I don't know what they were caught on and TBH I don't care).

2. Why is it controversial? If you guys can't answer as level headed cognescenti then who can?

At least I've found one thing that I agree with the Yanks on:-

"Any transmission of information via any communicative device concerning any aspect of fishing is prohibited during tournament hours."

Imagine that, a day free from the mobile phone and Blackberry.....bliss.

I like the the hard/soft bait differentiation. I think that's an reasonable compromise personally.

Have weekend guys. I'm off to baste some lures in mental halibut and crab sauce.

Cheers

P
 

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Paul:

Don't think anyone was, or is getting at you.
It was/is a valid question that has woken me up to the fact we need to call this stuff

Soft lure or soft bait fishing.

btw, I have a bag of gulp waiting for you for next time.

You can use that, i'll use a fraction of an xlayer.

Grasdos match on, gauntlet is thrown. Or are you chicken LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Paul:

Don't think anyone was, or is getting at you.
It was/is a valid question that has woken me up to the fact we need to call this stuff

Soft lure or soft bait fishing.

btw, I have a bag of gulp waiting for you for next time.

You can use that, i'll use a fraction of an xlayer.

Grasdos match on, gauntlet is thrown. Or are you chicken LOL
Hmmmm.

Let me think about that Keith. Former 4th in Europe matchman versus me in a small fish comp. I'll buy you a beer and pass now. Unless I can use my bass drop net (16 square feet) and some liquidised bread.

You know you love the detail really LOL.

Best

P
 

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Spoilsport...

See you over the weekend hopefully.

btw:

Take a look at the Atomic stash in ****'s, I reckon it's the mutts nuts if we can get it.
Btw, that stuff ain't made of cornflakes.
 
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